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	<title>Comments for Practical Ethics</title>
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	<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk</link>
	<description>Ethics in the News</description>
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		<title>Comment on Phones 4 U, Ke$ha and becoming offensive by Peter Wicks</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/phones-4-u-keha-and-becoming-offensive/comment-page-1/#comment-63571</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Wicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 21:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6262#comment-63571</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really think Regina&#039;s &#039;I agree&#039; analogy quite works here, because the juxtaposition in question clearly forms part of an agreed conversational narrative, and draws its significance from that. Hannah&#039;s point, if I understood it correctly, was that there is no such agreed or intended narrative flow that would render the juxtaposition significant in any moral sense in either the ad example or the song example.

Nevertheless, I think both Regina and Steve are on to something, and this for two reasons. 

Firstly, it is by no means clear to me that labelling something &#039;offensive&#039; necessarily implies that it is morally wrong. If not, then this obviously raises the question why Ofcom had any business making an issue of it, but then Ofcom is not, as far as I am aware, supposed to be a moral guardian so much as a regulatory authority with a regulatory mandate. It may well be that Ofcom overstepped its authority, but it would be a bizarre piece of legislative drafting if the criterion had to do with morality per se. (One of course hopes that laws are designed with moral principles in mind, but even that tends to be indirect. Morality should come in at the level of political decision-making, and thenceforth should presumably play only a rather minor role, the main emphasis being rather on faithfully applying the law.) and as for the song, it appears that no regulatory authority was involved, and the radio stations (and songstress) were just taking their listeners feelings (and, of course, their own reputations) into account.

And this brings me to my second point. Why would the feelings of the viewer/listener not be relevant in determining whether a juxtaposition is to be considered morally defensible or not? Obviously we cannot say that a speech act is immoral (let alone worthy of censorship) because somebody somewhere might be offended, but just as (in Steve&#039;s example) you would not joke about banana skins at the funeral of someone who had died slipping on one, so it seems reasonable to disapprove of gratuitously screening/playing light-hearted reminders of a recent trauma (be it a rape scene screened a few seconds ago or a massacre that took place a few days ago).

And I think this raises a more general issue, which has become something of an obsession for me, namely the extent to which emotion and aesthetics play a legitimate role in our normative calculations, and the extent to which they tend to be undervalued by ethicists because they see emotion and aesthetics as somehow inimical to reason. Once we understand that reason and fact alone cannot determine what we should value (Hume&#039;s insight, but one which many ethicists, and others of course, seem to have great difficult really grasping), then we can see more clearly to recognise the crucial role that emotions and aesthetics must indeed play, and we can further understand that they are only inimical to reason to the extent that they become so strong that they overwhelm our capacity to reason, and we have not developed the mindfulness skills to ensure that they don&#039;t. I would certainly be interested to see more attention being paid to this issue on this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really think Regina&#8217;s &#8216;I agree&#8217; analogy quite works here, because the juxtaposition in question clearly forms part of an agreed conversational narrative, and draws its significance from that. Hannah&#8217;s point, if I understood it correctly, was that there is no such agreed or intended narrative flow that would render the juxtaposition significant in any moral sense in either the ad example or the song example.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I think both Regina and Steve are on to something, and this for two reasons. </p>
<p>Firstly, it is by no means clear to me that labelling something &#8216;offensive&#8217; necessarily implies that it is morally wrong. If not, then this obviously raises the question why Ofcom had any business making an issue of it, but then Ofcom is not, as far as I am aware, supposed to be a moral guardian so much as a regulatory authority with a regulatory mandate. It may well be that Ofcom overstepped its authority, but it would be a bizarre piece of legislative drafting if the criterion had to do with morality per se. (One of course hopes that laws are designed with moral principles in mind, but even that tends to be indirect. Morality should come in at the level of political decision-making, and thenceforth should presumably play only a rather minor role, the main emphasis being rather on faithfully applying the law.) and as for the song, it appears that no regulatory authority was involved, and the radio stations (and songstress) were just taking their listeners feelings (and, of course, their own reputations) into account.</p>
<p>And this brings me to my second point. Why would the feelings of the viewer/listener not be relevant in determining whether a juxtaposition is to be considered morally defensible or not? Obviously we cannot say that a speech act is immoral (let alone worthy of censorship) because somebody somewhere might be offended, but just as (in Steve&#8217;s example) you would not joke about banana skins at the funeral of someone who had died slipping on one, so it seems reasonable to disapprove of gratuitously screening/playing light-hearted reminders of a recent trauma (be it a rape scene screened a few seconds ago or a massacre that took place a few days ago).</p>
<p>And I think this raises a more general issue, which has become something of an obsession for me, namely the extent to which emotion and aesthetics play a legitimate role in our normative calculations, and the extent to which they tend to be undervalued by ethicists because they see emotion and aesthetics as somehow inimical to reason. Once we understand that reason and fact alone cannot determine what we should value (Hume&#8217;s insight, but one which many ethicists, and others of course, seem to have great difficult really grasping), then we can see more clearly to recognise the crucial role that emotions and aesthetics must indeed play, and we can further understand that they are only inimical to reason to the extent that they become so strong that they overwhelm our capacity to reason, and we have not developed the mindfulness skills to ensure that they don&#8217;t. I would certainly be interested to see more attention being paid to this issue on this blog.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What is Effective Altruism? by http://ceu.academia.edu/EricJBrown</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/what-is-effective-altruism/comment-page-1/#comment-63440</link>
		<dc:creator>http://ceu.academia.edu/EricJBrown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 09:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6308#comment-63440</guid>
		<description>From this post it seems to me that you overlook the need for massive political reform--that is the establishment of effective and reliable rule of law---in many, many countries so that corruption and state capture do not prevent and subvert efforts to establish measures against existential risks that are ignored because corporations and cartels control the legal and regulatory environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From this post it seems to me that you overlook the need for massive political reform&#8211;that is the establishment of effective and reliable rule of law&#8212;in many, many countries so that corruption and state capture do not prevent and subvert efforts to establish measures against existential risks that are ignored because corporations and cartels control the legal and regulatory environment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What is Effective Altruism? by Matthew Newton</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/what-is-effective-altruism/comment-page-1/#comment-63431</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 05:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6308#comment-63431</guid>
		<description>One thing you could do at the CEA is provide a link to some of the organizations looking at existential risk reduction, (such as the Oxford FHI or the new one at Cambridge) in case people want to donate to that cause, with the caveat that of course the value of these organizations&#039; work is much more difficult to assess reliably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing you could do at the CEA is provide a link to some of the organizations looking at existential risk reduction, (such as the Oxford FHI or the new one at Cambridge) in case people want to donate to that cause, with the caveat that of course the value of these organizations&#8217; work is much more difficult to assess reliably.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why are we not much, much, much better at parenting? by Joao Lourenco</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/comment-page-1/#comment-63387</link>
		<dc:creator>Joao Lourenco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 14:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6233#comment-63387</guid>
		<description>Yes, I agree with you, I might have push things a little further at the end to make my point.  I tried to I describe &#039;wants&#039; evolution has shaped on us to achieve its goals. But I reckon this is not something the parents actively want, probably they just experience this subgoal of evolution as decontextualized human emotions, such as the feeling that the child must be independent or whatnot. (And of course, as a transhumanist, I very much agree that the wants of evolution and of humans diverge, and that we must stick with the latter.)
The case of contraceptive pill is not the same as parenting. I don&#039;t think some new technology has completely reshaped the way parenting is (as your post argues), so the evolutionary shaped behavior still plays a major role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree with you, I might have push things a little further at the end to make my point.  I tried to I describe &#8216;wants&#8217; evolution has shaped on us to achieve its goals. But I reckon this is not something the parents actively want, probably they just experience this subgoal of evolution as decontextualized human emotions, such as the feeling that the child must be independent or whatnot. (And of course, as a transhumanist, I very much agree that the wants of evolution and of humans diverge, and that we must stick with the latter.)<br />
The case of contraceptive pill is not the same as parenting. I don&#8217;t think some new technology has completely reshaped the way parenting is (as your post argues), so the evolutionary shaped behavior still plays a major role.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why are we not much, much, much better at parenting? by fivegreenleafs</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/comment-page-1/#comment-63369</link>
		<dc:creator>fivegreenleafs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 09:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6233#comment-63369</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;...but wondering if there were ways for parents (broadly construed, to include eg governments) to have great influence, and why we were so terrible at figuring out these methods, if they did exist&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Firstly, I would urge you to really do read &quot;The Nurture Assumption&quot;, or at least the original article: Harris, J. R. Where is the child&#039;s environment? A group socialization theory of development. Psychological Review, 102, 458-489, (1995).

If Harris theory do stand up to scientific scrutiny, it does eminently explain the &quot;why&quot;, and point to both the possible opportunities and constraints for the &quot;how&quot;.

Harris does touch extensively upon these issues as well, both directly and implicitly in her book.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;...and why we were so terrible at figuring out these methods, if they did exist&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Were we, are we? To whom do you refer, and on what time scale, historical epoch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;&#8230;but wondering if there were ways for parents (broadly construed, to include eg governments) to have great influence, and why we were so terrible at figuring out these methods, if they did exist&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Firstly, I would urge you to really do read &#8220;The Nurture Assumption&#8221;, or at least the original article: Harris, J. R. Where is the child&#8217;s environment? A group socialization theory of development. Psychological Review, 102, 458-489, (1995).</p>
<p>If Harris theory do stand up to scientific scrutiny, it does eminently explain the &#8220;why&#8221;, and point to both the possible opportunities and constraints for the &#8220;how&#8221;.</p>
<p>Harris does touch extensively upon these issues as well, both directly and implicitly in her book.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;&#8230;and why we were so terrible at figuring out these methods, if they did exist&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Were we, are we? To whom do you refer, and on what time scale, historical epoch?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why are we not much, much, much better at parenting? by Stuart Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/comment-page-1/#comment-63364</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 08:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6233#comment-63364</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So the real answer is: parents don’t want to be better, they want to be the worst possible kind of parents which would allow for the survival and reproducibly of their child. Evolution is an evil god.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Evolution shapes the wants of parents, but parents don&#039;t want the same thing as evolution. Example: evolution &quot;wants&quot; people to have sex, people want to have the pleasure of sex, but evolution doesn&#039;t &quot;want&quot; people to have the pleasure of sex. So, for instance, if you gave people control over their environment, they would not go in the direction that evolution would &quot;want&quot; them to go (see contraceptive pills).

Also, there&#039;s strong evidence of cultural changes in how parents relate to children - post Rousseau, post reduced child mortality - on scales much faster than evolution can manage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So the real answer is: parents don’t want to be better, they want to be the worst possible kind of parents which would allow for the survival and reproducibly of their child. Evolution is an evil god.</p></blockquote>
<p>Evolution shapes the wants of parents, but parents don&#8217;t want the same thing as evolution. Example: evolution &#8220;wants&#8221; people to have sex, people want to have the pleasure of sex, but evolution doesn&#8217;t &#8220;want&#8221; people to have the pleasure of sex. So, for instance, if you gave people control over their environment, they would not go in the direction that evolution would &#8220;want&#8221; them to go (see contraceptive pills).</p>
<p>Also, there&#8217;s strong evidence of cultural changes in how parents relate to children &#8211; post Rousseau, post reduced child mortality &#8211; on scales much faster than evolution can manage.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why are we not much, much, much better at parenting? by Stuart Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/comment-page-1/#comment-63363</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 08:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6233#comment-63363</guid>
		<description>Thanks for bringing that up! The Nurture Assumption, as I understand, demonstrates that parents don&#039;t have much influence on their children&#039;s outcomes (baring abuse and other excesses).

I wasn&#039;t looking at the current setup, though, but wondering if there were ways for parents (broadly construed, to include eg governments) to have great influence - and why we were so terrible at figuring out these methods, if they did exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for bringing that up! The Nurture Assumption, as I understand, demonstrates that parents don&#8217;t have much influence on their children&#8217;s outcomes (baring abuse and other excesses).</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t looking at the current setup, though, but wondering if there were ways for parents (broadly construed, to include eg governments) to have great influence &#8211; and why we were so terrible at figuring out these methods, if they did exist.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why are we not much, much, much better at parenting? by Stuart Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/comment-page-1/#comment-63362</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 08:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6233#comment-63362</guid>
		<description>&gt;What would it mean, to maximise the comfort of parenting whilst minimising the harm to the child, or the reverse?

Great improvements on either axis would be good!

&gt;What if parents delude themselves in thinking that they have all that much influence of their progeny’s outcomes.

The question is not whether current parenting has much of an influence, but whether it could have a lot more influence - and why we haven&#039;t discovered a way to do that yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;What would it mean, to maximise the comfort of parenting whilst minimising the harm to the child, or the reverse?</p>
<p>Great improvements on either axis would be good!</p>
<p>&gt;What if parents delude themselves in thinking that they have all that much influence of their progeny’s outcomes.</p>
<p>The question is not whether current parenting has much of an influence, but whether it could have a lot more influence &#8211; and why we haven&#8217;t discovered a way to do that yet.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why are we not much, much, much better at parenting? by judith jones</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/comment-page-1/#comment-63324</link>
		<dc:creator>judith jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 21:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6233#comment-63324</guid>
		<description>&quot;And the effects of that advice for parenting is… useful but incremental.&quot;

Useful AND incremental :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And the effects of that advice for parenting is… useful but incremental.&#8221;</p>
<p>Useful AND incremental <img src='http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Why are we not much, much, much better at parenting? by fivegreenleafs</title>
		<link>http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/comment-page-1/#comment-63301</link>
		<dc:creator>fivegreenleafs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 14:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/?p=6233#comment-63301</guid>
		<description>That is a very interesting observation, that illuminates one aspect about much of the historic research done in this area in sociology and psychology, that (more or less), has exclusively been based on western (european) societies.

Often, only different socioeconomic groups have been compared in studies, (if I have understood the situation correctly), in most cases without no real comparisons between radically different cultures and societes.

I think this points to a potential very serious defect, (together with the absence of genetics), since antropological data and, even simple anecdotal observations (as you present here), indicate easily observed and obvious apparent differences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a very interesting observation, that illuminates one aspect about much of the historic research done in this area in sociology and psychology, that (more or less), has exclusively been based on western (european) societies.</p>
<p>Often, only different socioeconomic groups have been compared in studies, (if I have understood the situation correctly), in most cases without no real comparisons between radically different cultures and societes.</p>
<p>I think this points to a potential very serious defect, (together with the absence of genetics), since antropological data and, even simple anecdotal observations (as you present here), indicate easily observed and obvious apparent differences.</p>
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